Hiring your office enforcer

00:07.49

satvcpodcast

Penny. How are you.

00:06.52

penny

Um, Tom do it all right? How are you in gus and sam.

00:11.30

satvcpodcast

Yeah, we're doing really? well so to to all the listeners out there. We had a baby boy gus he came a couple of almost 3 weeks now. So our first and this episode is is sort of slightly sleep deprived. But we'll see how we go so it welcome ladies and gentlemen to strategy in the virtual controller our podcast which is aimed at helping accountants and bookkeepers um run better businesses. Um, deliver real value to their clients. Um build a ah business. Um, that doesn't necessarily rely on them so we talk about people. We talk about technology. We talk about avoiding the the short-term distractions like the book strategy and the fat smoker by David maister which was what we've modeled the podcast on so the website is satvc co. S a t v c dot co so you can catch up on all the other episodes there. Any links any articles that we refer to you'll find you'll find all the information there as well. So today's episode penny we're we're going to continue this conversation of um, avoiding cloning ourselves. So. Ah, people continue to be 1 of the biggest challenges within the accounting industry always in the top 3 issues keeping practitioners awake at night. It just depends on whether it's 1 2 or 3 depending on the time of year um but I think we've got to spend a little bit more time on digging into this idea of your next hire isn't necessarily a bookkeeper or your next hire shouldn't be an accountant. So what are you seeing out there and in the in in the industry.

01:47.24

penny

Well I see the industry talking about this and addressing this you know and this probably a combination of well we've got fewer people going into being cpas is and accountants but also technology I mean if you look at other fields. Um. People are changing how they are choosing to hire people and and they want to train them in get somebody who has some level of knowledge but then can be trained on specific things within a business's needs. So along those lines I've had last time we spoke I told you I had 3 in in a matter of 2 weeks I think that called me about I need to hire a bookkeeper I need to hire a cpa and then I had 2 more this week exactly the same thing. And I copied you on because both of them asked me when I told them what they should do. They asked me to write up a job description for it and um so I did I wrote up a job description for the person that you should be hiring in not only a job description. But. A list of the things that they can do but the number 1 thing they should never do is become a bookkeeper handling the accounting because as soon as they do, you're going to move them out of that and then you're going to lose the benefit of having that person who can be your teams. Yeah, and team being the client the accountant the technology and the bookkeepers who are actually doing the day to day traffic copypping of of the books. So the person is the coordinator I called them the implementer documenter call them an administrative assistant. Um, come whatever you will but they don't need to be Rocket scientists. They don't need to have an accounting degree degree. Um, they do need to have somewhat of a personality they do need to want to be a team player. And they do need to be um, have good communication skills. Good writing skills good reading skills because you can utilize them if you saw in that list I gave to bassem um, you know because he had come to me goes I need to hire. Twenty bookkeepers and then do this and do this and I went yeah good luck with that. You want to outsource to 20 us bookkeepers and you want them to be at your beck and call. They've already got their own brand going. They've already got their own thing going. They're going to work on your stuff when they get around to it.

04:18.83

satvcpodcast

Good luck with that. Yeah.

04:31.78

satvcpodcast

Okay, ah.

04:33.37

penny

But your whole program that you're putting out requires that things be closed in the books accurately because he's in a vertical and everything is Defined. He goes? Yeah but I'm training them I'm doing all this stuff and I said you've got a good team and the Philippines doing this work. What you need is a coordinator because they're not getting. What they need to do the work in a timely fashion. They know what to do in these books you are in a vertical.. Everybody's set up exactly the same the problem you have is we is the information to put into the books and.

04:54.94

satvcpodcast

A.

05:04.74

satvcpodcast

Yeah, and I loved in your list there. Your job description says do not turn this person into another bookkeeper rather turn this person into your app technology Manager coordinator and I think that's really important is that they don't have to have a bookkeeping background. They don't need a bookkeeping experience.

05:15.80

penny

Exactly.

05:24.20

satvcpodcast

In in in many respects. It's better that they don't so that as you said they don't get dragged in.

05:26.69

penny

Yeah, they they? Yeah they can't get dragged into anything. They can't answer questions when clients ask on the phone while you're talking to them setting them up an app. What will you? you know what? this is what I'm going to do I will put this in the notes and the bookkeeper will be able to answer that for you because she has those answers or he has those answers. Ah, the accountant has those answers I don't I'm here to support you in using these apps and the other thing it does is put them in the Workflow. Um I did this with a client in Hawaii and we had a meeting with her just yesterday on our team and they introduced me to the person they hired and um. Already within 2 weeks. They were seeing a huge difference. Um Backlogs were getting were getting cleared out their their workflow that to them looked like a bunch of crap and we had organized quite a bit of it and cleaned up some of it. She was able to come in and finish the job that we didn't have time to do. Because we were busy doing all the work that she was finally getting the documentation sent to us for doing and it was like within 2 weeks. She's like I had a client that 2 weeks ago was unhappy and go and I got to hire another bookkeeper and 2 weeks later. She's going this is this this this this worked out just the way you said it was it was great.

06:27.12

satvcpodcast

Um, and and penny. It's actually really.

06:39.32

satvcpodcast

And and the best thing about it is particularly when you introduce that person to the client to say um, hi penny I want to introduce you to our coordinator damien and damien's gonna take care of this this this and this so when you do have questions. He's gonna be your first porter call if you got questions about the apps. If you got questions about anything that's happening in the technology damien' to first port a call and then he'll be able to direct you like it. It sets the expectation and it changes that experience for the client as well doesn't it.

07:07.69

penny

Oh yeah, and now you're not,, You're not the accountant a bookkeeper getting calls What the app doesn't work what happened with it. What's wrong with It. You're not the 1 that has to then go to the app developer the app salesperson the app customer support and take care of it. That's not what you're supposed to be doing. That's not what your day-to-day task is not if you want to have a good life balance work balance This person's going to learn it. This person's going to take care of it. This person's going to make sure that the apps that you spend time and money learning about and implementing are getting utilized. By your clients and so you're going to find out who's the good client who's the back client and who's the good technology and which technology sucks and doesn't really do what it says it does so sorry but sometimes they don't.

07:54.28

satvcpodcast

And you'll also find that you'll also learn this. Yeah yeah, but and you'll also learn the same thing about your team in terms of when the bookkeepers and the accountants are focused on the bookkeeping and accounting what are their strengths and weaknesses and and let them focus on where they add most value to the relationship and.

08:01.25

penny

Um, yeah.

08:14.57

satvcpodcast

I'm I'm a fan of time sheets. Um, and you will notice that your realization or your utilization goes through the roof as a result of bringing a person like this in because it just eliminates all of the minutiae that your bookkeepers and accountants your technicians were getting bocked down in.

08:29.79

penny

Oh Oh yeah, I mean it was like you know they were like I was kept on looking at hours for this particular client that that we had and I went how come we're not like fulfilling the daily allotment of work. They have tons of work. They have all and it's like we keep on ask of what is the documentation. You want us to you want us to reconcile this Account. We've Allocated. We've done all the prep work. All we got to do is now do a reconciliation. No statements, no statements, no statements and here's the thing is people go Well, you know they break You can't depend On. You can't depend on this app because it breaks you can't The apps aren't breaking people change their passwords. Cybersecurity changes. The apps are trying to keep up with that. But with the thing is well ah we'll give you ah an excel sheet and we'll give you all the usernames and passwords that the clients have given us. No I don't want you flipping clients and names of password. Oh That's security Risk. What are you stupid.

09:19.50

satvcpodcast

What that security? Yeah, but also penny sometimes sometimes a technology does break. But if you're not monitoring it and I think that's what that's what I remember that example that you used a couple of ep well quite a few episodes ago now where.

09:25.60

penny

You shouldn't have that security risk I mean for creating out loud. Exactly.

09:38.52

satvcpodcast

They hadn't meant that the bank feeds broke 3 months ago but because they were only doing quarterly. They had no idea that the bank feeds had broken and so they had no no 1 no idea and so therefore they were so far behind but this person is also monitoring the connection. So sometimes the the tech does break.

09:51.88

penny

Um, yes.

09:56.34

satvcpodcast

Um, but if somebody's monitoring it and somebody's responsible for it then it's going to get updated quickly and liaise with it with the app company and and get it sorted.

10:02.59

penny

when when I I like I've told I've told people before I have a few direct clients that I deal with and and in my team there is somebody. You know we we work in teams in our office in chennai and there is 1 person who monitors all the connections. I know immediately if a connection's not working I don't have to go into the quickbooks file I don't have to go into ledger sync I don't have to do anything I don't I don't have to go into dex which are the typical ones we use for fetching I don't have to because somebody notifies me in the workflow they push it back to me because. I am that person that I tell you you should hi ah and in my company because I'm testing all of this stuff and I go in and I contact the client and I go hey listen I need you to log in and do this and you know the thing is they won't remember you have to support them in this because. It's not an app. Well some apps they're using day to day for you and you want and they should know that 1 but also the person who receives the code isn't necessarily the person that you're dealing with in the company. All of that has to go into discovery when you're onboarding the client. And that's another thing that this person can do they can do discovery on the client that has nothing to do with accounting discovery but has to do with the workflow within that client's business so that you know the right person to contact in the company when something needs to be done and. I mean you can't assume that you're going to be doing somebody's accounting bookkeeping and then you're going to get all these value added if you don't flip and have information or communicate with the client and it's not just numbers that you have to learn about.

11:50.89

satvcpodcast

Yeah, and and and and also this person and and maybe that's where we go to next is let's sort of dig deeper into listing out the the actual roles and responsibilities or duties and responsibilities of this person but but that that operating procedures manual and and.

11:52.44

penny

You have to learn about culture of the business.

12:08.68

satvcpodcast

Whether you use it a 1 note or something similar to keep the the procedures and and processes all in 1 place. That's their responsibility to maintain that to update that and to keep that as as a live and dynamic document.

12:15.90

penny

Yeah, Ah yeah I don't have an accountant documenting their own procedures. They can write stuff down and then somebody like me or or the admin that we have over in sinai goes through it and goes I don't get this. Why do you do this. Well can't you see it? No could you explain it to me. Oh Oh I didn't I didn't see that in the step. Well, it's everybody knows that I didn't know that. So if you get hit by a bus and we have to replace you tomorrow is the next person going to know that because that seems it's specific to that client. Well yeah, but I know it.

12:43.24

satvcpodcast

Yeah, yeah.

12:56.30

satvcpodcast

And fat lot of good that is if that bus comes alone.

12:55.43

penny

Well good for you. How does I help this? Yeah really excuse me. Don't let the door hit in the ass in the way out. Yeah, you.

13:04.95

satvcpodcast

And and I think as well and hopefully listeners are sort of ah listening along right now and thinking. Okay, my next hire doesn't need to be a bookkeeper doesn't need to be an accountant could be this implementer and documenter and hopefully that's open.

13:18.14

penny

If You do not have those if you have backup of work If you have items that you need to do to complete a job on ah engagement that you gave that client and said you would do and it's not happening and you get frustrated bookkeepers all the client the client, the client, the client. You know what you need that person if you need that person.

13:38.35

satvcpodcast

Yeah, but the the thing is hopefully as we jump into this list of duties and responsibilities your your thoughts on who this person could be should be growing and growing and growing because the skill set. Um, it's not.

13:50.22

penny

Um, thank you.

13:54.94

satvcpodcast

It's not an accountant and bookkeepers skill set certainly the attention to detail, etc, etc might be there but but this person's we can cast a very wide net for this type of person can't we yeahp.

14:05.86

penny

Communications ah business 2 year degree high school even a high school person to start off with I mean eventually they can be some. You know if you find okay, they're really good. Documents are flowing in the clients are Happy. Everything's going along and all of a sudden now you've got capacity to take more clients because the stuff's getting done and you're using those apps better to get done now. You can see the benefit so we've got more capacity so you can go out and get new clients or this person's not that busy now because they got things flowing in. So.

14:39.97

satvcpodcast

Yes, someone with customer service background.

14:39.55

penny

Let's put them on our social media posts. Let's get them. Let's get them doing the documentation on procedure have them sit in on these meetings and start documenting what we talk about with about the client. Um, you have them checking on the calendars making sure that we've got the right Test. You know the other thing I find in workflows is that people don't clean up their messes in a workflow Once they're done with the work. They don't tend to go in and complete it. They don't tend to clear it out So you know what have them do that for you because now it doesn't look so overwhelming and now all the things that those apps promised you.

15:05.46

satvcpodcast

Ah.

15:18.51

penny

You could do that would make your business your accounting business run more fluidly and more profitably can actually be done but at some point you do need a human being to click the complete button on a task. To make sure that the document is where it needs to be at the time it needs to be there and to make sure that the person who's doing the work understands the nuances of the client because you know like nobody spends their money the same way. Nobody moves their money the same way and. Ah, business can be the same kind of business. You can have a business says exactly the same thing that they do the same service of product they provide but the owners may have different goals themselves in mind or what they want to do the business with the business and that's the unique part about it but that has to be. That has to be an important feature of making this value added come in the duel that value added doesn't happen without that.

16:18.98

satvcpodcast

Okay, yeah, okay, let's let's strip it but let's start from start from the top here penny because I think even in the last couple of minutes we we've rattled off a whole host of act and and I don't know but but but but what.

16:30.72

penny

Um, I'm sorry.

16:36.61

satvcpodcast

But what we've said is we've we've said if you find a capable person then they can also do this and this and this and this and this and so if I'm if I'm a listener I'm sitting there thinking oh shit this is ah a pretty significant job description. So let's strip it back and sort of start at the fundamentals and and what are the key things that.

16:53.24

penny

Mentals is get somebody who can clear the deck somebody who can swab the boat I don't care get get the backlog and okay you you know backlog Everybody everybody's got a backlog everybody of I can't believe.

16:57.54

satvcpodcast

I Have no idea what that means penny Let let.

17:09.90

penny

That the accountants that I spoken to are the only ones out there that are ah not seeing the promise of technology and closing the books every month happening on the schedule that they want it to happen on because everything's coming in perfectly. Without somebody other than the bookkeeper or the accountant going out and beating up the client for the work. Um.

17:32.64

satvcpodcast

Okay, so so that's that's ah, that's a really good place to start in terms of what are the types of skills that we're looking for. We're looking for someone to coordinate with the client the flow of information so they've got to be good on the phones because they've got to call clients to say we're looking for this. We're chasing this.

17:41.97

penny

Um, yes, yes.

17:49.71

satvcpodcast

Can you give us access to this the Passwords change So good written and verbal Communications'd I'd imagine allender skills because they're probably going to be managing the the scheduling or associated with it making sure that the the works in according to the schedule so scheduling.

17:54.32

penny

Um, yeah.

18:08.68

satvcpodcast

Calendar management.

18:09.41

penny

Scheduling scheduling. They should be in the workflow because they should be a part of every client's task so that when the bookkeeper or the accountant reaches a point where they cannot finish the work because they're missing a piece of information or a document. They reroute the task back to this person and with a note saying I need this from this client and I need it by such and such a date so that it goes back into out of the client's view out of the Bookkeeper accountants view. They can go on to the next thing they don't have to think about it because they know somebody else is on it. It'll come back into their view when that person rerouts the task back to their work in progress or whatever status point is the next status point to rewrite it back to the book I've got everything you needed move along and.

18:55.43

satvcpodcast

And and just as we're talking you know workflow this person really can be virtual can be anywhere because with that with the right workflow tools in place they can log on from anywhere anytime and see which administrative tasks.

19:00.75

penny

Um, yeah.

19:08.51

penny

I've got a client I got a client who won office in Florida One office this a direct client 1 office in Florida One office in California he's got an administrative assistant in the Philippines and we do all their bookkeeping in we set up the 20 person lllcs. You know we've got twenty files for them that we manage and we we work in chenae and we all communicate through slack and work for asama and so when we need a document when we're not getting information in order to be able to close the books out. Ah, to to to manage the expense tracking. We don't contact the client in Florida ah, the client and and san francisco we talking to the assistant in the Philippines and she is dealing with they're getting everything for us.

20:00.58

satvcpodcast

And I think that's an important part as well is that that this person understands the the client's organization so that they're not ah.

20:07.39

penny

Oh yeah, she's she's been working with this guy for 2 years so I mean you know she knew every she knew everything we asked her more questions so we asked the client she knows how he spends his money she does she she's on main point of contact and she does all of his scheduling. She does she manages getting all the documentation. She's got all the loan box for the real estate stuff that they she's our point of contact. Um and I never get involved in it anymore because my cha I team builds with philippines and I only talk to the owners of the business.

20:42.81

satvcpodcast

And and again going but someone someone's looking for their afternoon walk. Um I think but also that's the other thing as well. It that sets the tone for the client.

20:45.57

penny

I'm sorry my dog's running around squeaking my toy right? why.

20:58.92

satvcpodcast

Relationship doesn't it because you now are talking to the client at their level as the business owner as the strategist. Um that we discussed in in previous episodes whereas we we spend we see a lot of firms where the actual accountant partner. They're the ones chasing the client for documents they're the ones chasing clients for New Passwords They're the ones chasing clients for money and what happens and I think partners and accountants are doing that because they don't want to give exposure to the client to the team in in fear of the team taking not taking off with the client. But the impact that this has on that client's ah, partner relationship or owner-owner. Relationship is huge because the ah because the client just sees the the partner their trusted business advisor so to speak as a thorn in their side someone that's constantly nagging them.

21:49.87

penny

Um, yeah.

21:53.34

satvcpodcast

Um, about missing documents missing payments missing this missing that and.

21:55.14

penny

Yeah, youre the none you're the nun who is who is chastising them for not having their homework but what you want to be is you want to be their best friend you want to be the person who when they talk to you, you're giving them the the what they need to grow their business. They don't need a financial statement at the end of the month every month but you do need it because you need to know what happened in their books and their numbers to make variable changes that allow them to meet the goal that they ultimately want which was the reason they came to you in the first place and that is your value added. And let me tell you something if you're having those positive conversations and some of them are positive I mean maybe you're telling them something that's going wrong in their business but you have a solution but at least you're pointing out something so your the bearer of of good tidings are important information. Not where is it historical information and it's going to be damn difficult for somebody to take that client away from you just because they happen to be talking to a client and remember. This person doesn't know a Jack thing about bookkeeping and every time the client asks them something or accounting and every time the client ask them something they always say well that's and I do that all the time don't ask me those questions up I don't know that stuff here. Talk to that person how they gonna take that away from you.

23:18.12

satvcpodcast

So yeah, exactly so that um this person is first and foremost going to focus on.

23:23.56

penny

And.

23:27.50

satvcpodcast

Any task that has a waiting for information any of those tasks associated with it. That's what that's going to be their bread and butter day in day out. That's the first thing they're going to look at.

23:28.64

penny

This that's going to be their main start. That's where they're going to start off and you and you're gonna very quickly. You will everybody who does this within 1 to 2 weeks because I know because we're the ones who are requesting it. Because we we're not getting the work sent to us in a timely fashion but within 1 to 2 weeks. You just start? Well there was 1 in Chicago where I actually I walked in the office they had me. They flew me out to chicago and sat me down and I'm listening to the bookie was going. Oh you know the client doesn't give us this the client doesn't give that and well wait a minute. Went out to the front room I wrote about it in the book I talked to the the receptionist I said can I teach you how to do something while they're in their kabisin and so I taught her how to use an autofetch on statements and you know what thirty minutes later we had at least 10 clients documents. Like that and all of a sudden the bookkeepers that last thing they did say to me both both of them said. Thank you so much I hated doing that somebody hates doing something. They're not going to do it. Well. And you're going to drive them away if you keep on asking them to do it.

24:43.43

satvcpodcast

It just reminds me of I think the second episode that we recorded penny where we talked about um, it might have been the third episode where we actually talked about sitting down with your team and what are the things I like doing what are the things I I hate doing and.

24:54.55

penny

Yeah.

24:59.99

satvcpodcast

It is so important that that listeners should really sit before before going into tax seasons should sit down with the team and be like what are the big thorns in your side. The the big the things that you hate doing and yeah, chasing clients and etc etc will probably feature quite strongly on that. That should be your next hire the person it could be a receptionist you might already have that person. But.

25:21.50

penny

Yeah, you have that person in your office who's willing to do it who's trainable to do it I mean these and here's the thing is these apps that you've you've paid for these apps that you want to use these apps that you have hopes of of making these efficiencies.

25:40.74

satvcpodcast

Yes, answer.

25:40.40

penny

They'll gladly train somebody and the training that they provide these days is really amazing I mean some of these companies I mean what they do on with creating videos and it's not like they have to read things and study things I mean these apps will do anything to help you utilize their apps.

25:59.11

satvcpodcast

And I think and and as we are sort of thinking about apps. Um I think a lot of a trap that a lot of accounting firms fall into is we talk We talk with the client once about the app.

25:59.56

penny

Better They will.

26:13.49

satvcpodcast

Um, we show them how it works once and then we move on to whatever we move on to whatever the next shiny object is or or whatever the next thing in the workflow is whereas for it to become a habit. We've we've really got a hammer at home with our clients and again this can be the responsibility of of this implementer and documenter. In addition to implementing in your own firm. They're also responsible for getting these tools embedded with the clients they could host Webinars they could create loom videos to to get the clients up and running.

26:38.74

penny

Ah, yeah, we we do that? Yeah that we do that with loom videos. We send those to clients all the time because those things are very short and sweet and quick and with they have great screaming and look at we needed to do this. We got this could you tell us what that is simple as that. And they they get back. They can text it back I don't care how they give it back to me but they can but the thing is they respond to that you you got all the dream of virtual accounting and value added doesn't kick in. Until you actually get the information to make the decision to help the client with their business and it's not.. It's not that the client often doesn't want to give it to you. It's just not. They're running their business. They don't need to learn.

27:19.50

satvcpodcast

Ah.

27:33.72

penny

Quickbooks they don't need to learn ledger sync. They don't need to learn to um I don't want to but you get them in all these apps and they're not in them 24 7 the way you are so it may be a couple of months goes by everything's working fine and then something breaks and so somebody's got to retrain them on how to do it again. Because they set it up once 3 months ago they don't remember what they did afterwards and that's okay, that's acceptable because they've got other things in their lives too and so you need somebody who can walk it through it again and understand that that might be necessary.

28:07.54

satvcpodcast

And and and that's and and I think in in many respects. That's a really good place to leave today's episode where we actually say here are the 2 responsibilities for for this person internally they're focused on anything that is awaiting information and and coordinating that and coordinating that with the client.

28:12.40

penny

Um, yep.

28:26.98

satvcpodcast

The other area for this person to so they'll log into the workflow to see anything awaiting for information the other area that they'd log into in in my mind is they would log into the technology the different apps that are being used and you can actually see for the most part on the client dashboard last login time.

28:42.54

penny

Um, yeah.

28:44.13

satvcpodcast

and and I remember that at Receipt bank was that was 1 of the things that we used to do was that they we built this metric called delay days which meant the the number of days between last login and and submissions and and if that day got beyond 10 days.

28:53.77

penny

Craft.

28:59.24

satvcpodcast

We were encouraging our our partner firms to get in contact with the client because that told us that there was some some issues using the technology because yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly so before we go adding more and more responsibilities to this list.

29:06.48

penny

Um, and now you've got somebody who can do it for you? yeah.

29:17.19

satvcpodcast

Let's focus on awaiting information and and client utilization of technology. That's what they focus on might be a part time role and then as this person gets that embedded and nails it. We can start adding roles and rep responsibility or we can add additional responsibilities to that job description but Penny. Do you.? Maybe we'll get. We'll get that list from that email I'll sort of make it make it a bit more generic but I'll get that onto the website and direct people back to your money. Penny Lllc blog where where they can get more information On. That particular implementer and documenter role. How does that sound Brilliant Well penny. Yeah, again, we can add more and more responsibilities to this person but let's get those 2 embedded down and I found it interesting that you said you'll notice a difference within 1 to 2 weeks and coming into tax season.

29:52.60

penny

Um, that sounds good. Okay.

30:09.42

satvcpodcast

Probably a pretty good hire right now. Penny um, always a pleasure. Um I think we've we've got a couple of topics to come up in the next couple of weeks which include pricing which also include um.

30:09.69

penny

Probably a pretty good hire right now. It's right.

30:21.72

penny

Hit.

30:27.26

satvcpodcast

Getting our clients using the technology. So. There's some exciting things for us to look forward to but until then ladies and gentlemen hit us up satvc dot co if you do have any questions like um like penny mentioned with with a couple of her clients shoot them through to us via linkedin. Um, and if you don't mind jump onto your favorite. Podcast platform writer review for us racist that'll help us get the word out but so penny always a pleasure and we'll see you next week will do thanks benny bye bye.

30:52.60

penny

Enjoy the beach. Okay, get those toes that those toes in a while right.