Skipping the Tax Season Chaos

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00:00.00

satvcpodcast

And ladies and gentlemen. We're back with the latest episode of strategy in the virtual controller. My name's Damian Greathead sitting in sunny Sydney and my co-host pet breslin my co-host Penny Breslin she's sitting in San Diego penny happy New Year to you? How are you.

00:18.40

penny

I'm all right happy New Year to you damien. How's it with the little one. Okay.

00:19.60

satvcpodcast

Yeah, not too bad. Um we're we're approaching month four or we just passed month four and and I feel like all of the gains on the the sleeping side of things have have literally gone back to day one so short naps.

00:32.75

penny

And.

00:36.66

satvcpodcast

Um, lots of short naps on me or my wife and yeah I feel like any good progress that we made over the last four months has has been um, ah white white clean. So to speak. So ah, apparently four month regression four month sleep regression is a thing and we are experiencing it right now.

00:57.74

penny

Well my ex- motherther-in-law wants. It's something that I found fascinating and I use all the time every child that's born is different and none of them come with thisqua.

01:09.90

satvcpodcast

Yeah, and um, it's it's interesting because there's that there's a whole bunch of online support resources and communities and all that type of stuff and no child is the same but I feel like we're all going everyone around this age. We're all going through the same thing. To to some varying degree. So it is quite interesting and and it's again that whole online community thing is quite amazing to know that you're not alone. Um, so so that is quite reassuring that. Yes, no, but no 2 children are the same but we're all going through something similar so that's somewhat reassuring.

01:45.98

penny

Yeah, you yeah, you do? Well you have no choice once you got to I get rid of them I've tried and I still have one at home. Oh.

01:48.46

satvcpodcast

But that that that that we will come out of it I guess is the other side of it as well. Yeah.

02:01.26

satvcpodcast

Ah, well, we'll see how we go and well penny strategy in the virtual controller. We're all focused on helping accountants and bookkeepers us help their small business owners make sense of the numbers make better decisions but also for the actual the. Business owners that do the accounting and bookkeeping to help them with their strategy and keep them focused on on what they want to get out of their business and and implementing the change that is required to move from that traditional compliance hourly billing. Um. Tax return heavy business into that more year-round monthly recurring revenue type business that is really focused on being the controller for clients and helping them understand the data helping them understand the numbers helping them make better business. Decisions as a result of good quality data. So that strategy in the virtual controller. That's what we're out to do and our website is satvc co you can see all the previous episodes and he downloads our contact details there as well. So hit us up on the website. And of course catch us on Linkedin but today penny where at the start of the year tax season is looming. January is obviously a really important month for all accountants and bookkeepers a lot of face time with clients coming up. Um, and a lot of accountants and bookkeepers are ah probably trying to implement new technology new processes new systems with their clients. Um, so I thought today we should talk about how do we talk to clients. How do we talk to clients about new things. Um. Because I've seen a lot of new initiatives fall flat because the accountants or the or the accounting and bookkeeping team. Don't talk to the client in a way that that the client understands what what's being asked of them I'm not sure if I frame phrase that correctly. but but I see that often I'm not sure what youth what you see in terms of how do accountants better talk to clients about change and about new ways of doing things.

04:20.49

penny

Um, well I think it's goes both ways I think that a lot of times what I've seen in the past especially is that business owners bring the change to the accounting firm and but that's in a traditional accounting firm and.

04:30.10

satvcpodcast

Yeah, cool.

04:39.51

penny

If you are are doing something that's a little bit more hands-on a little bit more of 1 of those 4 areas of being a cfo whether you're the catalyst for a startup or you're you're somebody who's actually handling the day-to-day stuff for a firm company. Um, those discussions are can be 2 way. The thing is if they're not It's how much you can scale up so I have a few clients where would doing that where I'm directly the person who is the. Want of a better word. The outsourced virtual accountant even though, um, don't consider myself that um because I've got a team of accountants to actually do the real good stuff that takes the brains to do um so I have the discussion with the clients. Talk to them. They present stuff to me right? and I present stuff to them. So um I have 2 of them that really have been growing fast both of them startups. Um.

05:37.84

satvcpodcast

Yeah.

05:52.95

penny

And we're at the end of the first year of both of them. They both started exact same time and the discussions are exactly the same with both of them. Their businesses did well now they have to change some of their procedures and when changing the procedure. It's a discussion that comes down to. Which technology would assist with getting that done either faster or better um and better wins over fast 3 time and so yeah, it's. These are discussions and they can take a long time and the answer doesn't come immediately and I don't have their immediate answer oftentimes like you know with some things you can't I mean with some things you can. You can just say okay this is this is our tech stack. This is what we use for this process. And you know those are pretty standard stuff like you know how we how are we gonna handle payroll. We have a payroll company that we deal with this is the 1 we prefer you to use. Go ahead? Um, but like for banking you know I have had. Both of these companies approached me about what's a better bank for us to use because the technology tools of the bank that they were using were not fitting their needs. They could see the drugs. Well one came to me asking for the recommendation and the other one I said.

07:17.88

satvcpodcast

Um, but they came but that but they came to you asking that for that recommendation? yeah.

07:28.78

penny

This sucks. Ah, can we do something differently and so yeah, so they there are other options out there sometimes for for for another one. It was for both of these two now. It's like. Okay, we need to do some projections into next year what's a good cash flow projection tool to use. So we're experimenting with different ones for that that kind they're coming down to the ones that make them happy and luckily you know I can just show them my top 3 and hope that they both picked the same one but you know if if I was if I was more of a traditional one where I'm um, forcing everybody into everything I would certainly just only show them. This is the one I would use and this is how it would work and this is what it would look like for you. Um, and so yeah. I mean it's it's it's there's a lot more out there to deal with there's a lot more technology out there to deal with and you know the the thing you have to keep in mind is they've got the technology that they have to deal with right? So I mean for whatever industry they're in. They've got.

08:36.37

satvcpodcast

Yeah, yeah.

08:45.80

penny

Ah crms and they've got vendors on their side and they've got um receive they've got customers on their side who have their own methods of receiving or sending money they have they have their own internal communications protocols that they use. And they have different ways of getting information into the company that actually affects the numbers but don't have yeah any numbers involved in them. So um, yeah, it's so you've got to take in mind that when you're adding technology stacks. For them that you're adding on to a variety of their internal technology just like you have as an accounting firm or as a bookkeeping firm or as ah as a virtual controlling Firm. You have your own internal tax tech stack that you use to communicate within your own company. And to manage the work in your own company. They do too Now. You're hotting something on to that.

09:43.38

satvcpodcast

And actually I Yeah I think that's important because I think accountants and bookkeepers fall into the trap of well I'm running the accounting system and that's the most important system. So You let you listen to me whereas. And operate in a silo whereas. Actually no, There's a lot of systems and there's a lot of moving pieces in this and we've got to be cognizant of those pieces because at the end of the day the clients the clients implementing new technology on a regular basis for their other business processes.

10:15.87

penny

Student.

10:17.88

satvcpodcast

Um, so it's not that they're necessarily adverse to technology. But if you come in and say my way or the highway you're probably going to get a um, ah less than positive response aren't you.

10:27.86

penny

Yeah I think that yes and so that's another move towards if you're gonna do something like this you have to niche you have to niche to make it scalable but you also have to niche to make it understandable for the needs that.

10:36.33

satvcpodcast

Yes. And.

10:46.82

penny

You need to present that you can and and the options that you can present to the client become I think clearer and better when you niche again I took that I because of the business that ah side that I'm in. With outsoururcing but I do see I do see the issues when an accounting firm doesn't niche. Um I you know like I was for ah the other day for 1 of our clients I was trying to write a template for workflow and a checklist and. I had to make it as basic as possible because so many of their clients are uniquely different and it's like wow you know wonder you have so much heavy lifting. Um, you know there's just even for 1 process that they do in the firm. And it's even though it's a compliance process each of their clients. We have 3 groups of how they approach doing that compliant work and how they they funnel the data in and so you have to there are like 3 different templates you know for that one process.

12:00.56

satvcpodcast

Um.

12:02.52

penny

Um, and it's a very complicated compliance process for that part of the country and so and in the end of the day you all have to do you all have to pay the same item in the same day. But how the data flows in. Is uniquely different to the 3 different groups and that's based on how those companies particularly run their own internal companies with their own tech stack and with their own workflow and with their own income coming in.

12:29.54

satvcpodcast

And and just reinforces that idea of niching how important it is because there's no way that you the accounting and bookkeeping firm are going to be able to scale if you're changing sort of changing systems and processes. On a consistent and regular basis to carry out the same function. So I think it really reinforces the importance of identifying that niche so that you can scale and importantly deliver a consistent experience to your both your team and then also your client.

13:03.58

penny

Well and then it also lends itself to learning a lot easier when you want to hire somebody or you want to learn yourself, but it's a lot quicker learning curve if you're niched. For anybody that you bring in as an employee. Um, it's a lot more to find. There's a lot less chaos and definitely you definitely want a lot less chaos. Believe me I live in it all day long and I don't like it. Um, but um, so I do think that that helps. It gets you to get you to focus and also you get to learn the industry trends for that type of business and um and you you can scale it you could. It's just a matter of it's scalability. It's scalability and life just having a life balance.

13:46.75

satvcpodcast

Yeah.

13:58.17

penny

Now the other thing is like if you're doing like a traditional accounting firm which believe me that stuff is still needed and it's still out there and you know there you're doing the tax returns the tax advisory and you probably have 20 to 120 write up clients and all you're dealing with is the after the fat stuff that stuff is still going strong I know because we do a lot of it and and that's easily scalable also because. The clients do in the majority of the work. It's just when you went you know this whole concept of being ah a virtual you know controller you really have to think about which kind of businesses you want to focus on and which type of industries you want to focus in.

14:49.64

satvcpodcast

Well I think also you know given where we are intact coming into taxis and I like your comment of a lot less chaos I think it's probably ah, a gentle reminder. Um, we may not want to take on a new industry this time of year. It. It might be a lovely referral from a really nice client and the the potential revenue on that tax return or the fee on that tax. Return looks quite nice, but um, in in the spirit of a lot less chaos. Maybe we don't want to be bringing on new clients in the New Year um in industries or or providing services that we don't quite have the skill set for. So maybe that's that that's sort of my takeaway from that part of the conversation is maybe like ah I think like our most recent episode where we said make a list of things you want to work on post-tax season. This might be 1 thing to add to that list. You know what we want to get into this industry. We want to get into this vertical but right now is not the right time because we've got tax season coming down the pipeline so being comfortable with saying no and and why you're saying no I think is really important. In this first week first and second week of january yeah

16:06.18

penny

I actually had to do that last night we got a lead that camemen and I was talking to my team and Chennai and I said what do you think and they said well be polite. But if they don't follow up I said if they don't follow up I'm not going to call him back I'm just the gonna.

16:21.14

satvcpodcast

News.

16:25.14

penny

And it's you know I'll be polite about it because it was really nice because it's a referral So I don't advertise very much but um so I'll be polite about it. But at this time of year. It's kind of like yeah we have to we have to take care of what we've got you know.

16:41.42

satvcpodcast

Yep.

16:42.30

penny

And we've got to make sure that what we've got. We're doing a good job but we're not stretching people too much because I don't want to get halfway through a tax tax season and have somebody just say screw it and quit. Um and I don't want to get to the end of the tax season and if somebody say I never want to come back here again. So um, and you know got it. You got to think about those things too so verticalization I think is really critical to everything to learning to being able to give good quality feedback and to be able to scale. It's it's in in then also to have a good life balance. Vertical verticalization in this area is huge that doesn't mean that you're stuck in that one vertical just like you know Rachel that we had on earlier started off you know ten years ago you know we discussed this and she goes okay I'm gonna start with.

17:24.67

satvcpodcast

No.

17:37.98

penny

Vertical and then when I get to a certain point and I know I can I can get my eyes off of it for a little while then I'll stop another ver and she's been very good. Just got 3 of them now and and and she's doing very well you heard that so she took her time. And she's picking and about who she'll do business with. She's very picky and um and it's it's done her very well and she's very but audible about it.

18:05.61

satvcpodcast

And also yeah, and and and also again, what we're not proposing here is that you get rid of everyone today. That's not inside that vertical because that's that's just not the reality but it's sort of recognizing that you. That you want to create this vertical that you've got the the start of the the vertical um park the rest in an appropriate spot that you can service them and then over the course of time because they're obviously an important part of the business still but just park them where we we're not going to be able to. Put these square pegs into round holes just park them where they can be serviced appropriately and then with the fullness of time we can either recommend they go to another firm. We can either just keep them in this part of the business. So. It's not necessarily that we've got to get rid of everything else today but a realization of okay. What do we want our strategic direction of the firm to be what are the types of clients that we want to work with the industries that we want to service and then start to to move the firm in that direction over a period of time.

19:14.47

penny

Well, yeah, and I think also too is that you can you can and this is something that just happened to me this morning um had a conversation with the client last night that started off 1 way and um, he brought up how how. What do you think we should do this because we we have this way. We're doing their accounts payable when they started was one way and the way it's going to turn out and I told him this about four months ago I said we might want to look at a different methodology for doing this because you're starting to grow and you're getting its. Becoming a little bit more cumbersome and there are other options out there and so last night he brought it up and he brought it up because he had to pay a bill and it the kind of he said how come that got out of control. And I said well too many cooks in the pot really helped me I said by the time it got to me four the people in your office had touched that bill and contacted that vendor and they all and so there was like I got a thread of emails from a bunch of different people as meal that's kind of ridiculous to do that? Um, he goes well let's. Let's look at doing this and he gave me a list of things he wanted have done and then after the call he emailed me goes just by the way so you know this doesn't have to be done tomorrow. Let's revisit this in two weeks and I went so I think that's the other thing too is sometimes when you have to think about. We've got an issue we need to think about how to solve it. We don't have to solve it today. So don't make the that a crisis I didn't make it a crisis I went okay, fine.

20:59.35

satvcpodcast

Yep.

21:06.40

penny

And then I just kind of laid down my thoughts on it and wrote a message in my project workflow and sent over an idea to my team and said I put a priority and a due date on it and said give me your thoughts. By this time after you've had about a week to look at this whole conversation on what you would like to do so it's not everything has to be done today and somebody once said to me there are 2 things about accounting and bookkeeping while a bookkeeping There's 2 things about bookkeeping one. It's all about allocation. So remember that and 2 nobody died because they didn't get their bank reconciled on time. So just you know, not everything's a crisis.

21:58.22

satvcpodcast

And maybe the.

22:00.48

penny

The only thing that's really crisis is compliance and if you clients on following through because if it's a compliance and all of a sudden it becomes a crisis for you and it's a really good time to think do you really want that client. You know.

22:06.50

satvcpodcast

Um. Yeah, well there's the pup um well I think that that's actually an important quite again around this relationship that you have with your clients. It. It's about asking that question. How important is this to be solved immediately. What's the immediacy of the problem and and as you said. Most clients are reasonable and most clients recognize that it's not life or death in in terms of some of our ap processes and and they will be quite comfortable with ah look I want to make sure that we get it resolved within the month or within the next six weeks but yeah we we don't have to solve it this week we don't have to solve it today. Um, but let's make sure we carve out some time to to think about it and actually again I go back to something that you said previously penny. What are the how do we give ourselves space to think about the problems that we're trying to solve and asking that question of of. I understand the problem I don't think we're going to solve it tonight is that okay 9 times out of 10 that's going to be okay, but but that just gives you the space to think about things. Um and and then actually come back to the client with recommendations. Um. Against the sort their expectation of Timeline. So I think that's really important for for listeners to remember and actually be comfortable asking the question of like do we need to solve this today I think we can get a solution but let's let's sort of give ourselves enough space and enough time to think about it. Um, holistically rather than just trying to put a band-aid on it today.

23:49.62

penny

And yeah and when you get into the situation where you do in this virtual controller work. You do have that kind of a relationship with the client or at least in your office does has that kind of relationship with the client but those kind of discussions can be done very calmly and very.

23:57.22

satvcpodcast

Um, yeah.

24:09.70

penny

And you when you've the whole idea this like flat rate you know the pricing we have never got to the pricing part that we really in detail. But when you when you bundled that hour for every client into your pricing. You know that you've. You have so given yourself the time and the space because you're gonna get paid for that hour. No matter whether you use it or not right. It's kind of like you know with the old phone companies if you didn't use your minutes you lost your minutes. You know if you didn't use the hour that I booked into your flat rate for the month I still charged you for it because sometimes I'm gonna get You're gonna get me for 2 hours the next month. But yeah people use it will so but 1 of the things that you know there are tools hate to do this system more technology but there are tools out there so like well he we were having the discussion it was being recorded.

24:48.63

satvcpodcast

Ah, look at the end of the day you're gonna you're gonna use that hour it might be yeah. it might be yeah

25:07.90

penny

So I could just go into Quickly. You know when I had time to think about I got up this one I copy and pasted the transcript for the areas that I wanted my team to look at and go Okay, here's my idea this is the way I would lay this Out. What do you think we just got to report back to him. So that we can make ah a good forward moving decision on how to handle this going forward and here are my thoughts and I just copied and paste conversation and and put it in a workflow and tasked it out to them and then set a priority level and a due date to get back to me on this now.

25:34.14

satvcpodcast

Um.

25:46.89

penny

I don't have to think about it I really don't I don't I don't have to think about it. Um, it's in their purview. Um I spent the next hour dealing with 2 other clients. So it's also giving it's also you to being able to say okay I've got this.

25:47.66

satvcpodcast

Um, yeah.

26:06.57

penny

Um, issue. But I've documented that we have to take care of it. So it's not going to be forgotten and it's not going to be like hey the client's going to come back to me in two weeks and go hey me we had that discussion. Um, actually I do and I have the response for you now you know.

26:21.87

satvcpodcast

Yeah, and I do like that. It's it's captured. It's in the system. It's got a due date. It's got a reminder you can you can literally forget about it. It's not written to I was I think it.

26:28.66

penny

Yeah.

26:34.37

penny

I Just I saw the look on your face like you've had that nightmare before too evans.

26:38.25

satvcpodcast

That know, but but also I'm literally looking at my pat by my old school checklist of things I've got to get done and all this type of stuff and I was flipping back through pages to find out of previously uncompleted checklists. To be like oh if I captured everything and I'm just like you know what? I've got to move away from pen and paper and and get that that sort of a system where it is um, it's not pen and paper. It's I'm not leafing through my my notebook to find out I've got uncomplete checklists. Um, like oh there's got to be a better Way. So It was a bit of a light bulb moment for me.

27:13.94

penny

Well, you know I gotta to tell you you know what I got Rick for Christmas he's he's a pen and paper. He's engineer. You know he's a pen and paper type person and's and I always see these like little yellow pads with with notes that he's flipping through all over the house and everything and it's like okay, fine.

27:22.95

satvcpodcast

Yep.

27:32.95

penny

So I got him something called remarkable and yeah and it actually feels like paper and he's like oh this feels like paper I said you can write whatever you want it automatically syncs up to you Google drive. It's time and date stamped. You can forget about it and if you need to go look at it. You can get it back again.

27:33.80

satvcpodcast

Um, is that the the the pad. Yeah yeah.

27:46.99

satvcpodcast

Ah, interesting. Okay I've been getting the ads on Instagram for it. So and I'll probably get a whole bunch more.

27:51.10

penny

So well I you I just I guess a tie to in and I'm going you know I thought about getting one for myself and then you know he's walking around with all these legal paths and I went now I'm getting to fan so because he's the one is he's out in the field right? So you know taking notes in stuff.

28:01.40

satvcpodcast

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.

28:10.39

satvcpodcast

No, but I think just in terms of having that and the the tasking system and there's a whole bunch out there from airtable I mean Microsoft has 1 built into the the 3 65 I mean I've I've got them.

28:10.41

penny

So I'm not I'm at my desk doing it. So.

28:25.78

satvcpodcast

It's just about sitting down and and learning to use them and and just utilizing them on ah on that regular basis and again I think go back to probably episode number 4 of everyone has to use it and it has to be used for every single task because I would I would find my it's obvious if I've just got to remove the pen and paper and just so I can't. Write something down I have to put it log it into the system. Yeah.

28:46.38

penny

Yeah, yeah, and there are so many different devices now that are feeding that information and so it is It is hard it and even like last night I have to remind myself to you got to remind you and and I think that the the thing is giving yourself permission to go ahead and set that aside Because. It's documented that it has to be done and has to be looked at and but I don't have to do it right? This minute and so I can get on to something else and now I've just cleared that space in my head mentally.

29:10.17

satvcpodcast

Yes, yeah.

29:16.20

satvcpodcast

No I think that's a good point actually and I think that's my takeaway and and my goal for the the new year is to to be able to park things in the appropriate place knowing that it's not going to fall through the cracks and there's a whole host of programs out there to to help you do exactly that. Because I think we've got so many things to think about and particularly coming into tax season. Um, there's going to be a lot of things. Well let's talk about that after tax season. Let's talk about that after and and particularly there's going to be ah, a lot of opportunity to talk after tax season. But if you don't have somewhere to park it and remind you. then then twelve months will go by and you you haven't spoken to the clients about hey why don't we start to talk about ways which we can automate some of your back office processes, etc, etc.

30:04.55

penny

Yeah, it's a good. It's a good room. You know, using those little tasks to yourself. You know in your workflow. It's It's a nice way to look at I mean I know a lot of the workflows are practice management based and stuff but that doesn't mean that I have my task that I just on the fly assigned to myself and I put do date on it.

30:23.17

satvcpodcast

Yep.

30:24.49

penny

Later. Um I use I do a lot of a lot of that on Google you know and I'll just I've got like a column you know at task boom I'm in the calendar I'll just add that task and just go and set it for doing.

30:35.20

satvcpodcast

And drag and drop ah drag and drop that that email over or the the notes over. Yeah no good point. Okay, so that's my ah.

30:40.55

penny

And and there were like bullshit calendars back and forth too. So like cause I have different time zones because I got to know like okay if I'm gonna post a meeting at this time. Ah in India what time is it for me. so ah so so

30:47.53

satvcpodcast

Yep.

30:53.93

satvcpodcast

What time is it this said here.

30:58.68

penny

You know they can see that also that way too. So they can yeah but that's just the way I'm doing I think there are there are other apps out there. That'll do it. There's a lot of good workflow apps somebody used this word and I know we're running over but I was showing oh they go the tile guys Tom Stairs I hope you don't get the tile machine that.

31:15.51

satvcpodcast

The awkward.

31:18.35

penny

Um I was showing them an app that we were using for cash flow projections and that a client wanted to use and I was showing this to a Cpa firm and and he was looking at it and was on Zoom and he goes. That's so light and he just had this happy smile on his face I went that's a really good way of of of describing it. It. It's a very light app it it does some 1 thing and it does it very very well and it's very light and it's very quick and easy to learn there. Run a lot of bells and whistles and it was very light and then ah the next day we were doing an onboarding with the firm in Chicago and they had a new workflow system that they were using. They had been using one for years and nobody ever liked it so they got this new one and um I was looking at it and I went that's light.

32:14.20

satvcpodcast

And.

32:15.95

penny

It was just I got the same feeling that that he got when he looked at that cash flow and I was like and the the office manager that you said that's exactly what I feel like because that's what exactly what I was thinking when we was learning this new app. This new workflow. It's just liked.

32:32.97

satvcpodcast

And that's okay.

32:35.13

penny

It does it and when you see that you go okay and you know what in everybody ah because we had the whole office was on the Zoom. So there were 7 people on their office on the Zoom and 2 people in my office on the Zoom and everybody was just like going. Yeah, we really liked this. You know that's really nice and so I'm going.

32:53.30

satvcpodcast

Yeah, yeah.

32:53.55

penny

God That means they're got to use it at school. So I mean you won you want to get that kind of happy feeling when you when you do these technologies too with your teams or with your clients.

33:03.19

satvcpodcast

Yeah, absolutely And and also there's probably a lot of untapped capability within a lot of the apps that you currently have as well. So before you go and try and bring in it bring in something new just make sure that it's It's not already there. In in what you've already purchased So I Think that's an important part an important reminder again coming into tax season. Let's let's look what we can park until the end of tax season and and what what do we have available to us. What do we need to compliment and help the team.

33:24.70

penny

Yeah, so.

33:37.75

satvcpodcast

But let's not go and complicate things and and bring in more chaos by either bringing in bringing in new industries that we haven't worked on new ah new technology that that is complicated and not light. Um because you and your team. Will be the ones that bear the brunt of of that additional chaos. Yeah well penny. Um, let's park it there I think we sort of went on off on a couple of tangents. But I think that's okay on today's today's episode yeah yeah that's true, but um, so folks.

33:58.72

penny

So keep the sure will.

34:09.77

penny

All these people don't mind.

34:16.38

satvcpodcast

Satvc co is where you can find previous episodes and of course your favorite platforms. Do us a favor if you've enjoyed listening um write a review rate us so that we can get the word out and also if you've got any questions on on technology on challenges that you're having. Ah, feel free to drop us a line on Linkedin but penny. Um, always a pleasure and we'll see you next week you too

34:37.36

penny

All right? You have a good one all right? Ah bye.