Proposing for the work

Timestamp Speaker Transcript

00:06.62 satvcpodcast And welcome welcome to the latest episode of strategy and the virtual controller. My name is damien greathead my co-host is penny breslin and basically what we're trying to do is we're trying to share our insights with listeners. Ah, into accounting and bookkeeping firms who were trying to grow their business who are trying to move away from that compliance aspect of the business. The um, the the deadlinedrive aspects of tax and accounting. And bring more value to the client relationships. Um, we've said it many times before accountants and bookkeepers um got a phenomenal knack for being able to tell a story from columns of numbers and that's a critical skill that that small business owners need to be able to leverage to be successful so to do it. We've got to get a few things in place. Um, and that's what we've been talking about. Um, sometimes we get a little bit distracted by the shiny new app. The shiny new object and we fail to to really build the infrastructure and the business required to to be successful at that. So a strategy in the virtual controller designed to help. Um, small businesses that do accounting and bookkeeping be successful. So penny. How are you today? Yeah, not too bad. Thanks um, it's sort of that interesting time of the year where we're it's sort of just before holidays and.

01:24.83 penny No'm Fine Damian How you doing.

01:34.78 satvcpodcast Trying to get as much done before the year end but also recognizing that want to get out on vacation pretty pretty quickly. Yeah, it's not going to have it um folks I'm I'm not quite sure what episode number we're up to um at the moment I've sort of lost track.

01:40.39 penny I Would love to but it ain't gonna happen.

01:52.12 satvcpodcast Ah, but you can capture the episodes at s a v c dot co s a v c dot co and obviously where you find your um, your favorite podcast. But um while I've lost counter lost track of the the number we're up to I do know that we've been previously focused. Been very inward looking and making sure that we're getting our own backyard in Order. What is it that we want to do sort of ah making um, intentional decisions on the types of services that we want to provide the types of customers. We want to work with. Types of tools. We want to use and and very focused on workflow etc and last couple of episodes we we got into pricing. Um, but now um I feel like were we're sort of ready ready ready now. We've got to get out and talk to a client. Don't we and and actually meet with the clients. Um I saw a lot of firms. Um, that wanted to get into this space. Um, they didn't actually meet with clients strangely enough they they'd have a conversation. They'd lob a proposal over they'd put 3 offers in front of them or 3 options in front of them. But but never actually met with the client. Um and surprise surprise weren't particularly successful so penny. What are your thoughts on on meeting with the client.

03:06.14 penny Um, well that you it would's always wonderful to go up to their location is you know because there's so much that happens in a business that affects the business's money.

03:13.80 satvcpodcast Um, yeah.

03:25.56 penny But doesn't actually happen within the office where all the bookkeeping of that business or on the banking or whatever it takes place. So it's good to especially if it's a new client and you are going to be doing something Beyond just compliance work. It's good to meet with them and so but during covid it's kind of like well you couldn't do that so there are other tools. You know that? ah that are ah useful. They're not quite as as forthcoming as actually being in boots on the ground but um. Tools that you did use that you have learned to use during covid are also tools that you can learn use now to record the conversations capture information. So the real. The thing is is you got to know the client and um. Pointing case. Ah 2 weeks ago was setting up a q a for a in a a firm business. What have you that was going to be doing financial advising for small businesses. And he said okay I'm going to put up this 1 client I'm going to put them in Qbo in qbo and what are the apps that you think that they should have and I started asking him questions someone tell me about the business and forty five minutes into the zoom meeting I said okay you have told me 7 times. You don't know when I specifically ask you what the client does in this situation I said I don't think that neither either you nor I are capable of deciding which apps are which integrations or even how the heck. Gonna set up this qbi old file because there are there too much information. You just don't know and exactly so have you figured out how much you going to charge him yet you know I ah so I think I think that.

05:23.44 satvcpodcast And if that's the case how how on Earth Do they price it. So.

05:36.71 penny A lot of times we'll just throw people into something because you know and the longer I got more of this went on for this particular clientm going. Damn if you're gonna use Qbo It's just going to be money and money out because there's just too much going on in this business. They have. Products they sell they have light manufacturing they have whole. So I said dude, there's a lot more going on here than just yeah, it's going to be a big heavy stack of of apps on top of Qbo are it's going to be a different gl altogether. But which I ended up recommending a different gl. But then there is there's the other thing. So I mean I think you do you have to you have to really have your Q a get up do a little research on the client before you go out there Google. Website Google Their social media um figure out you know what? the the the figure out that the the brain or the or the feeling of the company and then decide if especially if you have. Ah, team who's best to go out and interview the coin it may not be the person. You think that should be going out there. You you.

07:03.54 satvcpodcast It may not be you. Yeah I think that's important. Yeah because I think and again I think we think about the skill set of our team. We think about the skill set of ourselves and. Knowing a lot of not ah, a lot of partners in accounting businesses. They can very quickly get stuck into the weeds and the minutiae of a business versus coming in and trying to look at a big picture and then getting starting starting high and then narrow and then narrowing down or vice versa they're they're just too high level.

07:38.56 penny Okay, yeah, that's his the others the other stories and that's happened with the same firm twice and eventually 1 of the partners ended up leaving the firm but they had 2 clients on 2 different occasions. Where they flew me in to work with them on getting the client while actually getting the contract and then figuring it out and in the first time it happened I just sat back and watched um and listened. And um and listen to ah to several cpas and a suppose a quickbooks professional bookkeeper tell me all the things that they could do because of their credentials and the business owner is sitting there. And the longer that discussion went on the more he was sweating bullets. Um, well you know, but but because I think the guy was in a lot of he was in a lot of discomfort about his business. Very successful but was about to lose somebody who was very very critical to the business because he was more.

08:36.89 satvcpodcast It sounds expensive is that why.

08:52.80 penny Ah, Australia to become a sur but Damien was it but um, but at no point did anybody ask himm what his goals were so sometimes I think you have to start at the talk like.

08:55.00 satvcpodcast And that's not me That's not me.

09:11.94 penny What is it that you wanted. There was a reason you contacted us what is it that you really want. Um, and if you're advertising a business where you are supporting people and non-compliance back office process. Money management. Um, they're calling you for a reason so I do think that you need to to learn their goal and in that case, um I wrote about this already you know in the last fifteen minutes of the meeting I got up and because. Ah, the cpa that hired me and flew me up there said do you have anything to say and I said if you want to hear it you bet and you know and in fifteen minutes drew on a whiteboard. This is what you've got this is your problem. This is what you want a solution for here are the solutions you already have in place.

09:56.34 satvcpodcast Um.

10:11.25 penny Here are the things that we could probably look at going down the line laid that all out in the board in fifteen minutes and he just said yes, sign the contract. Whatever it is just yes I want that I want that and it was like you know we're an hour and a half into the ah this ta 2 hour meeting that you know. Was the first time he ever actually said anything you know I was like wow I mean there's 1 thing about touting your own business and stuff. Um, but listen to the pain of the person and so good. So the bet that company they signed the contract we've worked out. All the flow with changes and stuff and they handed it over to 1 of the partners because he was closest. You know to the guy he was and you know six months later I get a call going, get you come down and help again and it's because. He was a cpa. He did not believe in using any of the applications that we put in place he expected all of that to be done in a different way and he was just go to live in excel spreadsheets and he was going to send the client. The standard run of the mill reports. Which is not what he signed up for um and then shortly after that they brought me up for another client. In this case I did step in very quickly because of the sheer panic I saw on this young man's face and he was taking over. Family business and it was obvious that he was very good at the front of the business but he had no idea how to manage the money and his father had been pretty paying everything playing everything. Close to the vast everything was in paper. There was nothing and he was literally shaking at 1 point and so I stepped in and just put my hand on his hand and said listen we're gonna take care of this so just take a deep breath and.

12:21.35 satvcpodcast Um, so there's a pet. Yeah, go on sorry.

12:21.41 penny Tell me how you feel and so again, this was handed off eventually to the Cpa. Ah and he went back to his excel spreadsheets and didn't do any of the things that we were. We had promised this kid. We would do we would promise that we would get him through this that we would help help him upgrade the systems and help him get through this because that's what he signed up. Ah, that's the contract he signed. That's what he was paying for and and.

12:54.70 satvcpodcast I mean it's sort of interesting though. There's a couple of things which we'll dig into a little bit more deeply but just with that example, he's not so well he probably is signing up for tax return and financial reporting but at at but there's so much more.

13:07.18 penny I Never heard before out of his mouth the whole time I was there I never heard the words tax return of financial planning out of his mouth.

13:12.16 satvcpodcast Say again. No I know and and um, but that's what the the cpa sort of went back to whereas what the guy was signing up for was a systems overhaul. Um, and if we sort of think about a back office systems Overhaul and if if we sort of think about.

13:23.81 penny Ah.

13:34.93 satvcpodcast This type of this role of controller. Um, it's an enormous opportunity for accounts and bookkeepers to step into that and help um a lot of back offices of small businesses modernize and automate. Um, but as you said this is what was keeping the guy up at night.

13:36.38 penny So.

13:53.30 satvcpodcast Not the actual the the amount of paper and and the sort of the the running of the back-office not the tax implications of that. But um, but the actual day-to-day of of cash flow of of record keeping of of that whole Back -office function um, and it sounds like when it was handed over to the partner I'm not sure was it the partner just reverted back to what they were most comfortable with or or they they thought it was a given that um that this stuff was being done. What do you think.

14:21.91 penny Um, he felt like what was important were the financial files that he was sending him and he he It was an argument that he he was adamant about that. This is what the client really needs.

14:25.61 satvcpodcast Um, ah yeah.

14:40.57 penny And this is what the client really wants and they ended up losing the client. The first 1 they kept because they took that guy off of it and they kept him next still a client to well actually I don't know if he's still aclining because I was brought in again and this was like several years ago that I went and did that initially best brought in again. Um, because he was getting ready to sell the business and so we were brought in my back office team was brought in to do a bunch of cleanup work.

15:07.56 satvcpodcast But I think and and if we go back a little bit further to that. The first example, you said I've seen it so many times as well that you sit in. Ah and I've actually done it myself. You sit with a prospective client and and basically you do Ninety percent of the talking sort of. Explaining this is what we do. This is how where this is how we work this is how we operate whereas you've really got to flip that that sort of a ratio and have the the prospective client the client doing the talking and I like that question that you asked why did you come to us what? what are you expecting to get out of this meeting. Your time is valuable but you've given up 2 hours to meet with us. What do you want to get out of this I mean I think that's that's a really good question that I hope listeners sort of write down and say you know what I'm going to open with that question the next time I sit in front of a prospective client. The other 1 is um. What are you? What? What are you not getting from your current provider that you think we can help with because I think that would be another interesting question to ask is what aren't you getting ah that you think we can provide and and I think that's ah I sort of I remember reading that question what you think we can do. Um, and get them talking and and nine times out of 10 you'll be able to check off everything on their list and if not, you'll note you'll know the other professional in your network that can um so sit down shut up and and ask those probing questions I think is the key.

16:39.77 penny Yeah I mean you know I you're not going to get it all in 1 if you're out there on the floor if you're if you have the opportunity to do to expand your questions Beyond just the owners that if they give the opportunity cause they did that. But this was.

16:44.16 satvcpodcast No.

16:59.66 penny Same firm that flew me up again for a totally different engagement similar type of business. They had the similar similar type issues but you know I didn't just talk to the owners I asked permission I talked to your employees you know. How show me how you do what you do, Um, you know.

17:20.50 satvcpodcast Yeah, um, 1 of the things. Um, ah my business partner chris frederickson good friend of a good friend of the show. Um he he his motto was you never leave without the general ledger without the gl and I think back in back in the day.

17:28.95 penny Um, yes.

17:39.58 satvcpodcast The gl probably was either the the Quickbook's file on a cd-rom or it was a physical ledger but um, he he he wanted to get on the on the client's floor into the client's business as quickly as possible whereas a lot of. Um, a lot of folks wanted the first meeting to happen in out in their office where you know they see the fancy the fancy boardroom and all that type of stuff but his thinking was I want to get into the prospective clients business as quickly as possible because then I can see where I can help then I can talk to the team talk to the staff. Um, maybe talk to a customer or 2 if if depending on the type of business but that that always struck me as a bit of a no- brainer but but the sooner you can get into your prospectives client business the sooner you're going to see opportunities to help and again we we sort of fall into the trap of. Um, a saying too much at meetings. But then also trying to impress them with with our fancy offices and our fancy boardrooms but at the end of the day. The the client doesn't really care about you. The client cares about what you can do for them. Yeah yeah.

18:49.50 penny Um w I I f m me Mom and it's it's a good idea if you if this is the kind again going back to step number 1 if this is what you really want to do? um.

18:54.61 satvcpodcast Yep.

19:06.91 penny You You have to create some kind of empathy between you and the client. Um and they have to feel like you do understand them. Um and you know you've if you've got a team if you've got the good technology that you can depend On. Um, then. The accounting kind of can take can happen with very little effort Once It's set up now you still got the setup and everything but the accounting and the bookkeeping you can control. It's then you know the relationship The the assistance that you can give because again I always. You said it at the beginning of this 1 I Still believe that accountants can see stuff that me as an average business owner I don't see it and they look at numbers when I talk to you know my clients with Cpas I can tell that they. They they know they can tell their clients I mean I'm I'm in the zoom meetings when they're talking to my team was doing their work and you could see that they know the client's doing well or not and what it is. That's causing it and they're looking at the numbers in a way that I can't see it because I don't have the relationship with the client.

20:19.89 satvcpodcast But also that's not your skill set but you you can go into ah into a back office and and and flag process improvements that are going to automate the entire that that's your skill set. Um I yeah um penny. What.

20:21.61 penny Um, nope.

20:30.89 penny Um, yeah, the money is definitely. Ah.

20:39.86 satvcpodcast Let's let's get a little bit more practical now because obviously getting into the client's business is really important but we saw with Covid that that that wasn't possible but also generally speaking. There's no reason. if if I've got a a microbrewery specialty in San diego. There's no reason why I can't be helping a microbrewery in washington state or or texas or so how how do we get in. How do we.

21:03.10 penny Oh no, Absolutely. Absolutely.

21:09.35 satvcpodcast Get into and I did inverted commas which you can't see but how do we get into the client's business when we either have a a global pandemic or B we are this virtual um, virtual business and and we serve as clients quite niched potentially across the country. How do we get into the client's business and and and what are the the steps and the tools that you use to really get under the hood so to speak um of these businesses.

21:36.97 penny Well, it's it's in the case of his 1 um clients. Ah sometimes it's just to hit him Miss I'm sorry this is a client is coming on board with us. That's not a firm. It's a direct client.

21:46.25 satvcpodcast Um.

21:55.77 penny Um, very adverse to taking but a friend of this is a client of oz because the a accounting firm asked us to go direct to doing the bookkeeping for this client. She's turned another client on to the same thing. The real estate development and and and investors. Um, and I'm not sure what flipping state he's in to tell you the truth because he's always zooming in from someplace different but third zoom meeting and I've finally got the cpa who's been doing this work. Doesn't want to do the bookkeeping and accounting anymore only wants to do the tax returns finally got her on it and in that 2 months stretch of starting this and um I started asking questions and I said excuse me but I see something different than what you. What the c pages told me and he goes oh because we didn't tell her that we just did this and she goes you did what and it's like you know and so I'm going I'll going every time I have a meeting with you the actual? um.

23:01.42 satvcpodcast Yeah.

23:12.36 penny Low of of letting it go and and fall into this like path of of just chunking out the bookkeeping and accounting is gets delayed and that's because they're in a super growth mode and the business itself is in flux.

23:24.22 satvcpodcast That. Um, yep.

23:32.15 penny Which is kind of cool because they have no accounting to begin with I mean they add just excel spreadsheets so putting them in stuff and getting the technology and everything lined up was 1 thing and then you know just but figuring out the changes. Ah. We literally had a 1 hour conversations schedule it turned into 2 and I kept on us and the cpa doing test said are you good with this. We're gonna have to go On. She goes no she goes I'm I'm taking notes ah somebody else send you the recording out. But so you have to be open to those kind of events happening.

24:00.67 satvcpodcast Um, like that movement of but the footprints.

24:10.91 penny Um, so ah and and and there was several times during that and I said okay well that that's interesting information that's going to happen. But it's not pot of the original engagement.

24:26.47 satvcpodcast Um, yeah.

24:29.24 penny You wrote So you're defining Now you go? Okay, you came to us and this is what you based on the pricing that you saw on a website if we had that 3 packet thing and then you find out this a little bit more okay, you realize that that part that is new information. Ah, is off the scope of what you expected and we would do So. It's also and it's also a good time if you can do this onsite or even like I've done this in a zoom Meeting. Um.

24:53.29 satvcpodcast Yep.

25:07.47 penny Little kids run in and out you know partners in 1 state. You know to 2 3 owners 3 owners in this this investment management firm and and and they're all in 3 different states and I can't tell you where the cpa is I don't really know i't I'd have to look it up.

25:07.48 satvcpodcast Um, yep.

25:26.60 penny Um, sure I I figured it out at 1 point but just completely blanked on it. Um, and none of us have ever seen each other but have I gotten a lot of deep information about this company sure and I did it all through zoom. Um.

25:38.20 satvcpodcast and and I guess if if you're sort of listening I think you've got to take advantage of zoom for example, screen sharing the recording the transcription service that sits within it I realize we're sort of getting in in the weeds here. But I think through zoom. You know in a virtual world. There are many ways to do it and I think when we went on site. Um, we we actually anticipated a lot of casual conversations. We could have a chat with 1 of the clerks in the back we could probably have a chat with a customer or we could have a chat with someone in the in the warehouse. Casually whereas I think in this virtual world. We have to formalize that and standardize that and so where you actually say I want to spend thirty minutes with the the ar clerk or I want to spend thirty minutes with someone in customer service to just to better understand what's happening and so I think you can.

26:21.62 penny Or.

26:36.52 satvcpodcast Um, quite easily formalize a lot of this discovery that would typically happen casually or inadvertently by being on site. You've just got to formalize that and make sure you're still capturing it and I don't think ah, a client a prospective client is is going to be. Offended or worried if you sort of said I'd I'd love to spend fifteen minutes with a couple of people in the team to better understand their business and and better understand their role in the business and um, do you mind if we do a quick screen share and you just actually show me how you do that? How do you process it a wow. Okay, you've got.

27:09.71 penny 1

27:13.45 satvcpodcast Five different applications to take care of this 1 process. Okay, let me record that let me get it transcribed and and then again this helps me, um, really define What the scope of this agreement actually is rather than than flying blind and and having those 7 conversations of ah. Well I Just don't know I don't know I don't know.

27:33.65 penny Um, yeah I don't know that and it and God that was that yeah I hear it a lot but to have it happen that much in 1 conversation. It was like you ah jump in the The. Fence on this 1 way too soon I making decisions about this guy and asking me to make decisions I can't make decisions when you don't have those answers but the other thing too is and I think that went back to what you said about the breweries As an example when you do a vertical like that. You have. It's not as difficult because you know you get the rhythm. You know how these businesses operate when they're verticalized like that they have the kind of the same types of vendors the same buying process. They're probably using.

28:10.32 satvcpodcast Yeah, true.

28:25.87 penny If it's a decent size business. It's probably using some proprietary software that works with whatever gl that they're using. So I mean you've got some kind of system already laid out and it's more of getting to know the people. Um, so I do think that.

28:40.62 satvcpodcast Um, yes.

28:45.70 penny You know I wouldn't I wouldn't characterize me as a as the person that would be running in an accounting firm but I do think that somebody who has the ability who thinks I heard is a very good friend of mine. Said to me the other day when we were walk him the dogs he goes. He goes. You know we think outside the Box. That's a good thing he goes but always remember when you're thinking outside the box that anything you're thinking relates to what's in the box right? I see what did I get a little esoteric there on you a little.

29:14.91 satvcpodcast Are.

29:24.14 penny But so I mean I have a tendency to do that. But I think that that you have to have people who can step outside of a box but always know that its point. Whatever they're doing this pointing back into so a problem that's in that box and that you're looking for a solution. Um, so I think.

covery checklist. You know it: 1617

30:21.76 penny A.

30:36.30 satvcpodcast His question I always thought it was force but it was if you had a magic wand. What would you do? um but it was it was basically trying to help accountants who are very um, very methodical and linear in the way that they the way that they think and the way that they approach problems.

30:50.28 penny Linear.

30:54.70 satvcpodcast But getting them comfortable with this idea of open-ended questions back to your back to your example that kicked us off an hour and a half into the meeting and the client actually hadn't said a thing and so how do you become comfortable with that. How do you become comfortable with the silence and how do and then you do that in person.

31:04.73 penny Yeah, yeah.

31:14.40 satvcpodcast How do you?? How do you replicate that in a virtual world. Um, and how do you capture the information ah that the client is actually sharing I think that's probably 1 thing that you miss out on some of the body language quees in Zoom Not all of them. But you do miss out on some of the body light the fidgeting or the nervousness.

31:31.90 penny Is so yeah, we do. There's always you know virtual reality. It's another world and.

31:36.93 satvcpodcast True, but but at the other but the other end of it is I think to your point is you're not going to discover everything in a sixty minute phone call. it's a series it's it's it's a journey um and I just as I said that I sort of remember going back to I think our first. Pricing conversation in 1 of the episodes. Um, that's why we bill it by the hour for the first 3 months because we don't know what we don't know. Yeah.

32:02.98 penny You know, no, we don't know and the client doesn't know what they don't know I mean you you can gonna you can like get some people who are really you know once in a blue wound. You're goingnna get somebody who's a shithead Now they're gonna hide stuff from you or they're not going to be honest and upfront with you.

32:15.26 satvcpodcast Yeah, um.

32:21.84 penny Um, that's I find that that's very not common. Um, it has happens but it's not common most people if you allow them to talk if you if you give them the space to feel comfortable. And they feel like you're being empathetic with them will tell you exactly how they're feeling what their goals are what if they could wave a magic wand what they would want things to look like but they don't always know what you're going to Need. Help you take them on that journey right? and you don't always know that they have the information that you need so it does take a while of back and forth and it can be frustrating upfront, but the the end results is that you have a detailed. Scope of an engagement a detailed process and you probably now have about 6 to seven months worth of value added that you know you're gonna do once you get the numbers down and lined up you do because you've already act your head going.

33:27.90 satvcpodcast Um, yeah, good point. Yep yeah.

33:34.75 penny Boy once we get this done. We're gonna have to introduce this but you know we're gonna do it all at once and.

33:37.54 satvcpodcast And we can't actually do that until we get this part taken care of I think that's a really important 1 Um, but I think just as you were talking there and and you did say it. But I Just want to reinforce is the scope's going to change and you've. Gotta be comfortable with the scope changing and bringing it to the attention of the client to say that that's that's more than what we agreed to and that's okay, but we need to we need to redefine this Scope. So I think that's becoming comfortable with that as well because again I think.

34:02.24 penny Oh.

34:09.65 penny So like with that that that investing plan Whoa You know back up, you know we did not tell us we were going to be asked to do this.

34:13.15 satvcpodcast Yeah.

34:18.98 satvcpodcast Yeah, and more often than not the client understands and so so the client understands the client recognizes that nothing that that this is more than what we agreed and and the client probably over this series of time has yet.

34:34.48 penny Um, got their own insights into what you could flaw them.

34:38.92 satvcpodcast But yeah, exactly and and again if if you're helping them grow. They're not going to be challenging. Ah the change the change in scope the change in the agreed fees. They'll be pissed if they get a bill unexpectedly but and again.

34:50.13 penny A.

34:53.58 satvcpodcast All goes back to what we've been talking about is this open dialogue this constant open dialogue that if you don't give yourself the space to to to think about your clients businesses. You're really going to struggle to develop that relationship.

35:06.90 penny Yeah, space is important, not the number of clients you have but the quality of clients you have the quality of the work that you do the quality of your team team's work. Give them give everybody space to get it done right? Nobody have ah somebody who. Somebody said it to me and might have been frederick san no mock all pre I accept this he said nobody ever died because their bank wasn't reconciled and um, you know it's it's a business. Owner's.

35:34.76 satvcpodcast Um, yeah.

35:45.66 penny You know, gotta know that then that they're going to be able to pay their bills pay their employees and at the end of the day take some profit home and and that's you know growth is great. Everybody wants to get rich real quick.

35:53.94 satvcpodcast Um, yeah.

36:03.35 penny Okay, great, good, good, good but getting more money doesn't necessarily mean more profit. Um, so and then you have to define what that profit is, um yeah so it's this is tough. This is tough during Covid This is tough during.

36:13.12 satvcpodcast Yeah.

36:22.26 penny Even after Covid that we've moved into a virtual world and also think about the people that you're going to bring into your business that are going to support these endeavors. They may not all be cpa's. Accountants You might be bringing in different types of people with different skill sets um people who can write people who can take ah a zoom and take a transcription off of Auto Ah, ah, chorus or whatever. And turn it into a proceed and I can tell you this Ah I Just unfortunately am'm going to lose my my process and procedure person because she's gonna have ah a baby and but so. I Just spent this morning writing a new app are somebody because that's a critical part of my business and.

37:18.98 satvcpodcast Um, yeah.

37:24.26 satvcpodcast Go goes back to 1 of the other actually a couple of episodes about building. The team don't clone. You don't need another. You don't clone yourself what complements you.

37:28.87 penny Um, yeah for clomb yourself. Yeah compliment you clone yourself when you want to create another vertical but only yourself then.

37:37.39 satvcpodcast Yeah, yeah, um, yeah penny I think that's a really good spot to leave today's episode um and and I do hope listeners of ah feeling more confidence. To to get out there and talk to their clients about how they can really help their businesses grow. They can really help with better controller level services a better financial function happening within their small business clients and again I think accountants and bookkeepers. Perfect people to provide this service. But yeah, you got to get that back that back the backyard in order. But then also we've got to get out and have a conversation with our clients and find out what's keeping them up at night. But um, really enjoyed this 1 penny I thought it was a now that we're sort of getting out and talking to clients I think that's the fun stuff.

38:29.58 penny Yeah I think so too Well, that's where I like to hang out because I don't end this ones.

38:32.92 satvcpodcast Yeah, and and and and getting getting into the client's business and and seeing what's going on and so sort of I don't want to say but seeing the dysfunction I think and and seeing as you said here is six months worth of work that we're going to continue to to. To add value to this relationship and at six months twelve months um I think that's the exciting bit I know when I worked in an accounting firm. The tax season was awful but it's sort of what you did because in the summer and and meant that you could actually get out to the client's businesses. And see what was going on in the in the back office. Yeah, exactly penny always a pleasure um ladies and gentlemen satvc co is where you can find the episodes is where you can find any materials articles penny's reference to her book. There.

39:08.80 penny Sure yeah and have some fun.

39:25.70 satvcpodcast Ah, you can find a link for that as well. Um, do us a favor ah leave us a review leave us a rating and that's going to help us get out into the the ether and help more and more accounting and bookkeeping professionals that are wanting to do this in their business but penny until next time I'll see you later.

39:44.27 penny Abyingian.